Ashathra

Somente dúvidas e exclarecimentos baseados em regra (ou o mais proximo disso) sobre cartas de Aliados

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Re: Ashathra

Postby deividxavier » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:52 pm

*Barco Voador
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Re: Ashathra

Postby Literate » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:56 pm

Nào tenho total certeza de qual carta é o Barco Voador, acredito que seja um evento... poderia postar o texto desta carta aqui?
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Re: Ashathra

Postby deividxavier » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:59 pm

Destroys any two allies, chosen by this card's player
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Re: Ashathra

Postby Rikus » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:01 pm

deividxavier wrote:Exemplo:

Estou com Tumor no poço e uso Ashathra para descarta-lo, se meu oponente usar Barco aliado para descartar Ashathra é valido?!


Não porque barco voador não é resposta e não porque a Ashathra é descartada já para fazer efeito.
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Re: Ashathra

Postby mr_diaz » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:02 pm

José,

É a regra que estatui que o Barco Voador/Airship pode ser usado desta forma.
Seguem o texto do evento supracitado, bem como o texto do aliado Loup-Garou que permite tal uso:
Airship
118/500
Event
Destroys any two allies chosen by this card's player; choice does not have to be immediate. (Harmful)

This card is a reprint of Airship (90/3rd). The earlier edition cards had a somewhat unclearer text.
For further information see SFRG 1, p. 126 and SFRG 2, p. 135.
Airship's power to destroy two allies need not be used all at once. It can destroy one ally, and then later destroy a second ally. Because of the additional wording on the 4th edition card, Airship remains in play until the second ally is destroyed, even if the current battle is over.
Airship can be used as a counter-effect card against allies. For example, if Loup-Garou is played, Airship can be immediately played to discard the Loup-Garou without having to play a magical item.
Because Airship is an event, it may be played at any time. This includes players not involved in the current combat.
(Regra Brasil 2.1, p. 142)
Loup-Garou
236/500
Ally
Werebeast. The opposing champion is automatically defeated unless he has or can play a magical item.

This card is a reprint of Loup-Garou (79/RL) with an altered text, but the same special power.
For further information see SFGR 1, p. 273 and SFRG 2, p. 197.
Loup-Garou is a powerful ally, despite its low level bonus. When played, the opposing champion must have, or immediately play, a magical item. Loup-Garou's power can be avoided if the opponent plays Airship, which functions as a counter-effect for allies, or has a card that destroys allies, such as the 1st edition Brine Dragon or Ankheg, provided that the card is in play before the Loup-Garou is played and that its power has not already been used. Likewise, if your opponent has the Stone Giant in his pool, its power to destroy an ally can be activated before Loup-Garou's power.
Loup-Garou can be used in many nasty combinations. The set of combinations known as Peek's Loup-Garou Two-Step calls for playing a card that destroys magical items prior to playing the Loup-Garou. These magical item-destroying cards include the champions Midnight, Goddess of Magic, Kiara, Captain Kazhal, Harkon Lukas; events Wind of Disenchantment, Sky Singers, Fast Talking!; and the realm Icewind Dale.
Flesh Golem is an excellent card to use with the Loup-Garou in combat, since it destroys magical items. If the Flesh Golem is played first, the opponent may still play a magical item to satisfy the Loup-Garou, but is discarded immediately after being played.
Playing Loup-Garou can backfire if the opponent plays a magical item that causes the Loup-Garou to switch sides, such as Shield of Wickedness or Amulet of the Beast.
Loup-Garou first appeared in the Ravenloft booster set.

Card Combo (from zuse2@webtv.net): In battle, cast ESP, which requires that the cards played into battle by the opponent are played face down. If the player guesses the card type, it is discarded. After ESP is in play, play a card that requires the opponent to play a certain type of card, such as Melt Bone (requires the opponent play an ally), Loup-Garou (opponent must have or play a magical item), Ki-Rin (opponent must have or play an ally). These cards make it rather easy to guess the next card to be played, ensuring it will be discarded and the opponent will be defeated.
(Regra Brasil 2.1, p. 150)
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Re: Ashathra

Postby deividxavier » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:03 pm

Eventos não são jogados a qualquer momento para ter seu efeito?
Ashathra não é um aliado?
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Re: Ashathra

Postby mr_diaz » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:07 pm

Sim e sim.
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Re: Ashathra

Postby Rikus » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

mr_diaz wrote:José,

É a regra que estatui que o Barco Voador/Airship pode ser usado desta forma.
Seguem o texto do evento supracitado, bem como o texto do aliado Loup-Garou que permite tal uso:
Airship
118/500
Event
Destroys any two allies chosen by this card's player; choice does not have to be immediate. (Harmful)

This card is a reprint of Airship (90/3rd). The earlier edition cards had a somewhat unclearer text.
For further information see SFRG 1, p. 126 and SFRG 2, p. 135.
Airship's power to destroy two allies need not be used all at once. It can destroy one ally, and then later destroy a second ally. Because of the additional wording on the 4th edition card, Airship remains in play until the second ally is destroyed, even if the current battle is over.
Airship can be used as a counter-effect card against allies. For example, if Loup-Garou is played, Airship can be immediately played to discard the Loup-Garou without having to play a magical item.
Because Airship is an event, it may be played at any time. This includes players not involved in the current combat.
(Regra Brasil 2.1, p. 142)
Loup-Garou
236/500
Ally
Werebeast. The opposing champion is automatically defeated unless he has or can play a magical item.

This card is a reprint of Loup-Garou (79/RL) with an altered text, but the same special power.
For further information see SFGR 1, p. 273 and SFRG 2, p. 197.
Loup-Garou is a powerful ally, despite its low level bonus. When played, the opposing champion must have, or immediately play, a magical item. Loup-Garou's power can be avoided if the opponent plays Airship, which functions as a counter-effect for allies, or has a card that destroys allies, such as the 1st edition Brine Dragon or Ankheg, provided that the card is in play before the Loup-Garou is played and that its power has not already been used. Likewise, if your opponent has the Stone Giant in his pool, its power to destroy an ally can be activated before Loup-Garou's power.
Loup-Garou can be used in many nasty combinations. The set of combinations known as Peek's Loup-Garou Two-Step calls for playing a card that destroys magical items prior to playing the Loup-Garou. These magical item-destroying cards include the champions Midnight, Goddess of Magic, Kiara, Captain Kazhal, Harkon Lukas; events Wind of Disenchantment, Sky Singers, Fast Talking!; and the realm Icewind Dale.
Flesh Golem is an excellent card to use with the Loup-Garou in combat, since it destroys magical items. If the Flesh Golem is played first, the opponent may still play a magical item to satisfy the Loup-Garou, but is discarded immediately after being played.
Playing Loup-Garou can backfire if the opponent plays a magical item that causes the Loup-Garou to switch sides, such as Shield of Wickedness or Amulet of the Beast.
Loup-Garou first appeared in the Ravenloft booster set.

Card Combo (from zuse2@webtv.net): In battle, cast ESP, which requires that the cards played into battle by the opponent are played face down. If the player guesses the card type, it is discarded. After ESP is in play, play a card that requires the opponent to play a certain type of card, such as Melt Bone (requires the opponent play an ally), Loup-Garou (opponent must have or play a magical item), Ki-Rin (opponent must have or play an ally). These cards make it rather easy to guess the next card to be played, ensuring it will be discarded and the opponent will be defeated.
(Regra Brasil 2.1, p. 150)


Vitor,

mas tem um porém, aliás 2. Porém 1, se descarta o aliado da mão para matar outro, não tem como 'Airship' destruí-lo porque o aliado já foi descartado. Outra coisa, olhei a SRG1 e SRG2 e vi que o 'Airship' não é utilizável como 'counter', e isto que olhei o texto de aliados com efeitos instantâneos, como 'Devorador de Mentes', 'Brine Dragons', que são como Ashathra (ao contrário do Loup Garou que permite resposta) e mesmo no texto de 'Loup Garou' na SRG1 e na SRG2 não meciona nada, ou seja, mais um caso que a regra 5.0 simplesmente cospe nas regras de 'Spellfire', criando um jogo novo. Lyr, mandando para o Abysmo, Glorianna descartando voadores, eventos em que o lançador é o primeiro a dar resposta, entre muitas outras regras absurdas que estão na 5.0 (que ainda montarei uma lista). Neste mês de setembro não teve uma vez que consultei a 5.0 sem me revoltar com alguma inovação mágica no 'Spellfire'. Acredito que temos que repensar isto, mas como por hora são as regras, 'Airship' pode ser sim utilizado como carta resposta.


Atenciosamente,

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Re: Ashathra

Postby Literate » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:37 pm

É exatamnete o evento que eu tinha pensado. Então a jogada fica mais ou menos assim:

Um oponente joga um aliado na batalha, e eu estou predendo por nível. Na minha mão está o Ashathra.

Eu resolvo descartar o Ashathra para tirar o aliado que está me incomodando.

Na resposta o meu oponente usa o evento para destruir o Ashathra, que teria saido da minha mão para o descarte, mas ainda assim é "destruirdo" pelo evento.

É isso?
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Re: Ashathra

Postby Literate » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:44 pm

Vitor,

mas tem um porém, aliás 2. Porém 1, se descarta o aliado da mão para matar outro, não tem como 'Airship' destruí-lo porque o aliado já foi descartado. Outra coisa, olhei a SRG1 e SRG2 e vi que o 'Airship' não é utilizável como 'counter', e isto que olhei o texto de aliados com efeitos instantâneos, como 'Devorador de Mentes', 'Brine Dragons', que são como Ashathra (ao contrário do Loup Garou que permite resposta) e mesmo no texto de 'Loup Garou' na SRG1 e na SRG2 não meciona nada, ou seja, mais um caso que a regra 5.0 simplesmente cospe nas regras de 'Spellfire', criando um jogo novo. Lyr, mandando para o Abysmo, Glorianna descartando voadores, eventos em que o lançador é o primeiro a dar resposta, entre muitas outras regras absurdas que estão na 5.0 (que ainda montarei uma lista). Neste mês de setembro não teve uma vez que consultei a 5.0 sem me revoltar com alguma inovação mágica no 'Spellfire'. Acredito que temos que repensar isto, mas como por hora são as regras, 'Airship' pode ser sim utilizado como carta resposta.


Atenciosamente,

Rikus


Rikus, no caso da Event Pause, honestamente não tinha lido a regra completa, portanto a regra correta não permite que o jogador que lançou o evento execute qualquer resposta para o mesmo. A discussão no tópico "Event Pause" era com relação ao entendimento da frase lá descrita, que conforme já expliquei anteriormente, diz que o primeiro a dar a resposta seria o lançador (se isso fosse possível). Mas isso esta na 5.0 também.
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